A small poll is traveling around the dock diving circles on fb this weekend. It asks the reader which position is the best to start a dog in for Big Air. The vast majority of people suggest the sit position because it is supposedly the best for allowing a powerful push off at the start, allowing the dog to gain speed more quickly, but I'm not so sure. (I answered "depends on the dog" lol)
Let's look at this in more depth:
SIT: The most common starting position in my experience, sit does seem to be more stable than a stand, but still allows creeping at the start and for some dogs. Sit does gather the dog's hind feet below him as well, so they are positioned well for that push off when released. Switching from a sit to running might be difficult for some dogs though, because the feet are under their body weight and they must push the rear up before moving forward. This likely only takes a split second, but does it use up needed force for that start?
DOWN: I've seen this used more by herding breed handlers than any other - it seems especially helpful for breeds that crouch when working as it is more natural than a full sit. I have seen some dogs creep in a down, but less often than in a sit or stand, and their starting momentum seems about the same as a sitting dog, though when that creeping stance is in play there might be a slight advantage in having the front low in more of a down than a sit to allow the front legs to "dig in" a bit more. Dogs who tuck their feet under or flop onto a hip before release will be at a definite disadvantage, however, as they'll have to get their feet sorted before starting forward momentum.
STAND: This seems to be the least preferred position and I think this is likely due to the difficulty most dogs have in keeping a true stand stay - creeping is just so much easier when you're already standing! One commenter on the fb poll did say that he had noticed dogs in a stand taking a stride to get up to speed as well, but I haven't watched enough stand started dogs to comment on this.
Another commenter on the poll mentioned trying a "bow" position (front down, rear up), which does make sense as it would eliminate the push up part of a sit and give the front more grip like a down, but I've never seen anyone use this, so who knows how well it works in practice.
For me, I've been starting Aeri in a sit just because she has a more solid sit stay than down stay at this point, but I may try all three positions in the future to see what works best for her. For Kestrel, a down seems to help him maintain position better than a sit - in a sit he switches to a crouched stand with creeping some of the time, while in a down he switches to a crouched sit without the creeping.
Perhaps our next trip to the dock will involve some experimenting!
Chronicling the joys of flinging stuff off of docks and into the water for dogs.
Showing posts with label stay. Show all posts
Showing posts with label stay. Show all posts
Sunday, January 8, 2012
Sunday, August 21, 2011
Stay (*not* staaaay.....staaaaaay........staaaaay.....) Part 2
Have a rock solid stay in all sorts of settings off of the dock? Now you're ready to start introducing the various aspects of your routine on the dock. Again, start small. Can your dog hold position when you walk away a few steps away? Half the length of the dock? The full length of the dock? When you're holding his toy? What about holding position when you stop and turn toward them? This pause and turn is often the cue many dogs see *right before* you give them their release cue, so many dogs creep or break here. Treat each of these aspects of your routine as a new distraction and train through them as needed.
If your dog creeps or breaks, use that information! Next time, try breaking your action that triggered the self-release into smaller pieces - walking a shorter distance and adding a step or two at a time instead of 5', turning around 1/4 way instead of all the way, holding the toy still in your hand instead of swinging it, etc.
A note about rewards for staying: The most powerful reward you have is releasing the dog to jump, so use it wisely. If you *always* reward with a jump you further emphasize the pattern of "place dog - handler walks way - handler releases dog to jump" which will add to the anticipation.
It is wise to keep your dog guessing, especially in this setting where anticipation of release can cause so many issues. I often will walk back to Kestrel or Aeri to reward a stay - with a toy or food, whichever the dog prefers and you have handy - so that they learn that the pattern sometimes changes and their best bet is to remain in place vs. trying to anticipate what happens next.
Once your dog is at least 90% reliable with the full stay on the dock, you can start introducing consequences for breaking or creeping. Your dog wants to jump, so taking that away usually is the only consequence you need, but how you apply that can vary.
The simplest option is re-placing the dog and trying again. If you do this, keep an eye on your dog as you walk away - a quick re-place is more effective than one that happens after the dog has already run half way down the dock.
A more severe response would be removing the dog from the dock completely for breaking or creeping. You can do this immediately after the first break/creep or institute a "3 strikes rule" that allows for 2 re-places on the dock before removing them completely. Having another dog jump before you try again can also be useful here.
Once you decide on what you'll do if your dog breaks or creeps, be sure to enact the consequence *every* time - if you occasionally give into the pressure of competition or impatience you will find that your dog is more likely to "test" your rules about stays while on the dock. This is due to the power that random reinforcement has - the slight possibility of a reward will encourage your dog to gamble that the next stay is one that they can break or creep on and still get their reward!
In summary, keep the following in mind:
Things *to* do
- Be aware of your routine on the dock: how you place your dog, how you walk away, what you do with the toy, etc. and work on teaching your dog that they are not release cues, too. Dogs are keen observers and often detect patterns we don't even realize we're creating, thus adding to their anticipation.
- Be consistent in your response to breaking or creeping. Dogs thrive on predictability and patterns and you don't want to create a canine gambling problem!
- Have patience when training the stay and when responding to breaks and creeping. Getting frustrated won't do anything to help you or your dog and can create negative associations with the dock.
- Practice, practice, practice! The more variety in practice the better!
- Never allow your dog to continue down the dock after breaking or creeping. Running and jumping after a self-release will reinforce that behavior.
- Don't expect your dog to hold a stay in a situation with more distraction, distance, or duration than you've been successful with in practice.
Stay (*not* staaaay.....staaaaaay........staaaaay.....) Part 1
I had a fellow dock diving friend ask me how I train stays today, so I decided I'd create a post in case my suggestions can help others, too.
My friend has a dog who enjoys the sport, but holding a stay is incredibly difficult for him in the high energy setting of a dock diving event and she was hoping for some tips that go above and beyond the usual "just take him back and reset him each time he breaks" advice.
The biggest challenge for a dock diving dog is maintaining a stationary position while the object of his desire (the toy) is moving away from him; he knows he will be released and he's often highly aroused just by the presence of the toy itself, let alone all of the additional distractions on and around the dock at a competition. In general, the anticipation of the release to a strong motivator is the reason behind creeping or outright breaking of position on the dock.
A dog might have an awesome stay under distraction elsewhere, but the high toy drive that makes for a good dock diver will work against you on the dock!
Before you even start stay training on the dock, make sure your dog understands what you want from him in a lower key environment.
I use clicker training to teach stays initially because the extra precision of the click as a marker can be very helpful, especially with busy dogs!
I start by asking for a sit (or down, your preference) and clicking as soon as the dog gives me the position. The click/treat is the release at this point and the "sit" cue means "sit until you are released or I give you another cue" (implied stay). An implied stay eliminates the need for another cue (i.e. "stay") and removes the very human temptation to repeat the word stay over and over during the exercise. ;)
I gradually increase the time between the dog getting into position and the click/reward - I don't generally increase the duration by more than 2 seconds per repetition at this early stage. As the dog progresses, I will ask for a shorter sit every once in a while to keep things interesting, rather than continually making the task more difficult for the dog. I always start with duration, too, to keep things simple for the dog.
Once the dog is comfortable with 15-20 seconds, then I will add more time on each repetition (perhaps 5 seconds or so) and I will drop the clicker in favor of a verbal release cue. The verbal cue is given exactly where I would've clicked, so it also acts as a marker in some respects; the reward is given after the verbal cue.
Be careful when choosing a release cue - many people use the word "OK", but then realize at a later point that they use that word in a lot of situations where it's not a release for the dog. This often will require extra work to teach the dog what tone or hand signal means the word is a release vs just part of an unrelated conversation. For around the house and on the dock I use "OK", I use "Free" in other more precise settings - this is just what works best for us. You can use any word you like, even "asparagus", just make sure you'll remember it when releasing your dog.
If the dog breaks position before the click or release cue, I take it as info to make the duration/distance from me/distraction easier rather than correcting. It is not the dog's fault that I increased my difficulty level too quickly.
I'm a firm believer that a dog breaking a stay during training is just them trying to figure out the game vs "disobedience"; it is up to us humans to figure out how to help the dog understand the exercise more clearly without assuming that the dogs "know better". After a break in position I will often ask for a shorter stay immediately after, reward, ask for a stay slightly longer (baby steps!), reward, and gradually surpass the point where he broke - no need to "correct", just break the behavior into smaller parts!
Once your dog is successful with the basic stay training foundation you can start to add more difficulty, but keep it simple. *Never* increase more than one aspect of a stay (the length of time, distance from you, level of distraction) at a time - your dog will struggle with the huge leap in difficulty. Stay training should be a game for the dog, not something to be dreaded!
My friend has a dog who enjoys the sport, but holding a stay is incredibly difficult for him in the high energy setting of a dock diving event and she was hoping for some tips that go above and beyond the usual "just take him back and reset him each time he breaks" advice.
The biggest challenge for a dock diving dog is maintaining a stationary position while the object of his desire (the toy) is moving away from him; he knows he will be released and he's often highly aroused just by the presence of the toy itself, let alone all of the additional distractions on and around the dock at a competition. In general, the anticipation of the release to a strong motivator is the reason behind creeping or outright breaking of position on the dock.
A dog might have an awesome stay under distraction elsewhere, but the high toy drive that makes for a good dock diver will work against you on the dock!
Before you even start stay training on the dock, make sure your dog understands what you want from him in a lower key environment.
I use clicker training to teach stays initially because the extra precision of the click as a marker can be very helpful, especially with busy dogs!
I start by asking for a sit (or down, your preference) and clicking as soon as the dog gives me the position. The click/treat is the release at this point and the "sit" cue means "sit until you are released or I give you another cue" (implied stay). An implied stay eliminates the need for another cue (i.e. "stay") and removes the very human temptation to repeat the word stay over and over during the exercise. ;)
I gradually increase the time between the dog getting into position and the click/reward - I don't generally increase the duration by more than 2 seconds per repetition at this early stage. As the dog progresses, I will ask for a shorter sit every once in a while to keep things interesting, rather than continually making the task more difficult for the dog. I always start with duration, too, to keep things simple for the dog.
Once the dog is comfortable with 15-20 seconds, then I will add more time on each repetition (perhaps 5 seconds or so) and I will drop the clicker in favor of a verbal release cue. The verbal cue is given exactly where I would've clicked, so it also acts as a marker in some respects; the reward is given after the verbal cue.
Be careful when choosing a release cue - many people use the word "OK", but then realize at a later point that they use that word in a lot of situations where it's not a release for the dog. This often will require extra work to teach the dog what tone or hand signal means the word is a release vs just part of an unrelated conversation. For around the house and on the dock I use "OK", I use "Free" in other more precise settings - this is just what works best for us. You can use any word you like, even "asparagus", just make sure you'll remember it when releasing your dog.
If the dog breaks position before the click or release cue, I take it as info to make the duration/distance from me/distraction easier rather than correcting. It is not the dog's fault that I increased my difficulty level too quickly.
I'm a firm believer that a dog breaking a stay during training is just them trying to figure out the game vs "disobedience"; it is up to us humans to figure out how to help the dog understand the exercise more clearly without assuming that the dogs "know better". After a break in position I will often ask for a shorter stay immediately after, reward, ask for a stay slightly longer (baby steps!), reward, and gradually surpass the point where he broke - no need to "correct", just break the behavior into smaller parts!
Once your dog is successful with the basic stay training foundation you can start to add more difficulty, but keep it simple. *Never* increase more than one aspect of a stay (the length of time, distance from you, level of distraction) at a time - your dog will struggle with the huge leap in difficulty. Stay training should be a game for the dog, not something to be dreaded!
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